An interview with Ted Bishop

I had the distinct pleasure to meet with Ted Bishop one Friday at his Legends of Indiana course in Franklin and it was a great conversation. Ted was more generous with his time than I deserved and we spoke freely for more than an hour (easily 30 minutes more than I planned). We covered a lot of ground and what follows are some excerpts as we discussed what he’s doing now, what he’s seeing in Indiana golf and some ideas for the future too.

I didn’t see any need to rehash a lot of ancient history with Ted; if you haven’t looked into his book, Unfriended, I would encourage you to pick up a copy or download. It tells his story better than anything I’m going to do.

HOW DID YOU FALL IN LOVE WITH THE GAME?

I got a job working at a golf course in Logansport; it was just a job, I didn’t even play golf that first season. I was a into baseball and basketball then. But I ended up being there for 5 summers, each year taking on more responsibilities. When I got to Purdue I eventually switched my major to Turf Management; I thought I was going to just be a course superintendent. My first job offer was at the Phil Harris Golf Course, but it went beyond the super role and included more of the “pro role” - so I had to learn the pro side (and pass my PAT). But I had to earn it from there too - as a “non-member Head Pro” back then it took me a few years to get enough credit to join the PGA. Then I spent 17 years there before I came up here to Franklin to build The Legends.

WHAT’S YOUR ROLE IN THE INDIANA PGA NOW?

The Section has been great, involving me in their special events, etc. and I’ve enjoyed it. But I’ve just perhaps done something that may be one of the more important things I’ve ever done. We recently hosted boys’ and girls’ IHSAA tournaments and witnessed 35 boys take 6 hours to play and the girls sectional take almost 6.5 hours. It’s been this gradual deterioration in pace of play. So I reached to Tim Finchem and Mike Davis, and Amy Saunders (Arnold Palmers’ daughter); the idea being that we can do something about it. Mike Davis was very supportive, pledging support and asked us to start local as a test-run. So we started getting leadership connected at the IHSAA, the head of Indiana PGA, the head of Indiana High School Golf Coaches Assoc. and others and formed a task force. We took 18 months and came up with the roll-out of a 20 minute instructional video on pace of play, focusing on things like Preparedness and Proper Etiquette. It’s now required viewing for coaches and players, alongside a second item which is Mandatory Rules Meetings for coaches (helping with rulings on-course, etc). And a 3rd item that being implemented is a “double par” maximum in IHSAA events to eliminate unneeded time. We did backtesting too, and enacting this rule had no impact on who advanced as a team or won as an individual. The 4th item is supplying locations around Indiana without a working “Pro and Instructional Handbook“ on hosting golf tournaments more effectively. We’re getting traction from other surrounding states too, so we feel like an impact is being made.

I’D SAY THIS BUILDS FASTER PLAY ORGANICALLY.

I can’t see a kid who plays a 6-hour round getting to adulthood thinking they’d want to go do THAT again. So hopefully we can keep them in the game.

I LIKE TO WATCH COLLEGE GOLF - PACE THERE IS HORRENDOUS.

Absolutely - and we’re hoping this will continue to grow.

WHAT BIG TAKEAWAYS DID YOU TAKE FROM THE RECENT INDIANA PGA SECTION MEETINGS?

We elected Kat Benson as a Section Officer, which is a big deal for us to see women advance in a male-dominated profession; so along with other Board Members we now have more women in leadership than ever before. Weather has made things tough - you need good days. But something that seems strange is we haven’t seen the contraction in the number of golf courses.

THERE’S BEEN A LOT OF COURSES KINDA HANGING AROUND.

A lot of these courses are in really close proximity to others; the competition hasn’t really changed even though it was so over-built in the 90s.

WE’RE SEEING COURSES FAIL THEN GET BOUGHT OUT OF RECEIVERSHIP; WHY WOULD SOMEONE THINK THEY CAN MAKE IT HAPPEN IN A SATURATED MARKET?

The major thing is they’re buying the properties at cents on the dollar for what it cost to build. At the end of the day, their debt service is a fraction than the original owners. But there are still operation challenges; chemicals, taxes, payroll.

WHAT CAN YOU TELL ME ABOUT THE ANNIVERSARY MEMBERSHIP YOUR COURSE ROLLED OUT IN 2018?

I got a book unsolicited in the mail one day called Golf the Untapped Market: Why the Professionals are Failing to Grow the Game in Nov. 2017 by Chuck Thompson. It felt insulting. But on a trip to Florida later I opened it and COULDN’T PUT IT DOWN. It was an honest assessment; we had seen something similar at the PGA level (from consultants) but nothing had addressed how to get the “casual golfer” to come out more. “Casual Golfer” is sometimes misleading; casual doesn’t mean they can’t play, don’t understand the rules or know how to take care of your course. They’re just “casual” because they’re playing less than 14 rounds of golf because they’re busy. What Thompson said in the book was to offer the casual golfer an affordable membership to get them there (the course effectively a loss leader) and they will enjoy the experience differently than the avid golfer. He nailed it; it dramatically altered our business model, almost immediately. We played 8000 rounds in our first May and June after the program started; and it put us where our volume needs to be with 27 holes.

HAS THERE BEEN ANY DOWNSIDE TO THIS SPIKE IN GROWTH?

We had some early glitches in scheduling (website); we got some feedback about pace of play, course conditions (players not cleaning up after themselves). So we’ve identified the major culprits that affect the course conditions; and we’ve also taken the step to empower our rangers to monitor player behavior. This includes tracking which players are the repeat offenders and warning them; if persistent, a second warning is a letter from me explaining their failure to adhere to good etiquette and that we expect them to comply or risk loss of playing privileges. I hope it never gets to that; I am more hopeful that word gets out the we take care of our course here.

I THINK EMPOWERING THE RANGERS IS HUGE.

We have a fairly intensive bit of training for our rangers on “par time” for holes and how to monitor a group in relation to other groups. We’re going to add a rolling clock behind the counter that is providing an actual pace of play for the course that day (and will update throughout the day), so as you check-in, you will have a good feel for what you’re in for.

I FEEL LIKE THERE ARE A LOT OF COURSES THAT ARE SPENDING TOO MUCH MONEY ON THE WRONG THINGS; MOWING TOO MUCH OUT-OF-THE-WAY AREAS, OVERWATERING, ETC.

I won’t say you’re wrong; 2/3rds of the public courses don’t have the revenue to spend on maintenance they should. One thing that helped us was The Anniverary Membership created more volume, more revenue for us to mow fairways more, tend bunkers more. I do see them (others) mowing more than they should, to a point. You can have things like fescue too long in the wrong places and it slows down play. There’s a few people that are putting too much water out there. But they kind of have to do it with the American version of a green course.

I LOVE WHAT PINEHURST DID TO NUBMER 2 - LESS WATERING, ALLOWING MORE OF THE BROWN LOOK.

I’ve been fortunate to play a lot of golf in Scotland, England, on some of the most famous courses in the world. And while I liked it, I knew that the conditions they have over there would never work in the States. If I did that, I’d be out of business.

WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE TO GET THE INDIANAPOLIS AREA A PERMANENT STOP FOR THE PGA TOUR?

When I was the President, we worked to get the PGA Championship back to Crooked Stick; with the way the demands have changed, they no longer had the infrastructure to do it again. Indy has always been very supportive for any event we’ve hosted. But it takes a sponsor, someone to want the event in Indy, for their clients. And there’s been some changes to the PGA Tour schedule, condensing and getting more competitive for those spots. The BMW Championship is well supported and the Tour likes it here. We also have the LPGA event -Indy Women in Tech in September at the Brickyard. The LPGA has always been great about finding a good market that is ready to support them.

WHAT’S YOUR TAKE ON THE NEW RULES?

I like them; I like the pace of play push. I’ve been a proponent of bifurcation for a long time. I have been maybe the loudest voice against the ban on the achored putter, including all the USGA meetings. They had their own view.

SOME SPEED ROUND STUFF:

FAV HOLE AT LEGENDS? #4 on Middle Nine

TIGER OR JACK? Jack

PEBBLE OR AUGUSTA? Augusta

PRACTICE PUTT STROKE OR JUST GO? Just go

COURSE KIND OF UNDER THE RADAR? Hulman Links in Terre Haute was always one I liked

COURSE THAT SHOULD NEVER GET ANOTHER MAJOR? Chambers Bay (I disagreed! But we had a good conversation about it)

COURSE THAT DESREVES ONE BUT NEVER GETS ONE? Pine Valley